It is very amusing, but I think these were made up for the children. For example, they said, “There is a thing that flies, the color of sky, that makes the noise like a babbling brook.” Everybody knows that is a bluebird. They had these lengthy descriptions of things. “There is the animal with a tree on its head.” (I laughed.) That would be a buck.
The legends say that at first the people lived in their ship. That is strange; our boats are open. But apparently according to legend this one was not open.
What do you do in your village when someone gets sick? Do you have any sickness?
B: Not many. This is true when you are in harmony with the Earth. Sickness is when you are not in harmony. (The word “sickness” was separated: “sick ness.”) And everyone is in harmony. When it happens it is usually in the winter, either one of the old people or someone very young. Sometimes there are injuries, like if you harm your arm or your leg or whathaveyou, sometimes the bone has to be pulled back into place and bound up until it heals.
We do not have much metal. It is said that the metal we have came from the old ones. It is very precious.
D: You have no way of finding any other metal?
B: I do not know. Sometimes in the stream some metal is found in amongst the rocks that is the color of sunshine. It is nice to use to make playthings for the children. It is too soft to make tools from, but it is pretty. Sometimes they make amulets out of it. Also it is said that in the old ones’ boat they had things to plant, and some grew, but some would not.
They planted grains. According to legend they used to yield wondrous amounts. The farmers dream of making the grains yield that way once again, but they do not.
D: Did the old ones bring any animals with them, or do you know anything about that? B: I do not know. The oxen do not resemble anything that I find in the woods. I suppose the old ones brought them, perhaps that is why we never eat oxen.
D: Do you think those people looked different from your people now? B: Ahh, I am not sure. It is said they were taller, more slender. They are described as being fair. I do not know how; I cannot picture it. Some were said to have hair the color of wheat, which is very strange.
B: I am not sure. There are just rumors of legends. It is said that the people from the boat felt heavy here. I do not understand that. And it is said that they felt very … pained. They could not figure out the moon for some reason. They made a lot of significance about the moon. They talked like it was something very unique. To me, the moon, she is the most beautiful one. But the old ones said things about the moon being so big. And earlier legends say they were amazed to see the moon. It also affected the women. They said that the moon was “different.” Some of the stories we tell children you will notice they have no doubt been embroidered. But they say that where the old ones came from they did not have a moon. Then when they landed here they thought the moon was another Earth, until they looked at it and realized that she is very beautiful They saw that the Earth is the mother and the moon is special. And so they were glad that they had come to Earth and not to the moon. It is said in the legends particularly the ones we tell children that the old ones were amazed at the strength of the sun. They thought that the sun was like a strong warrior, very bold.
This will sound funny but this is what the legend says. They felt that since the sun was such a strong warrior, they would have the sun help them to hunt and use the sun spear to kill the animal.
There are two or three different reasons given as to why the old ones had to leave their earth and cross the void. Some say that their people had been out of harmony with the earth for so long that their earth was dying and they had to leave. Some say that their sun was out of harmony and was dying. And there is another set of legends that say they were part of a large people and the old ones made them angry and had to leave. Either way they left in their ship.
The legend says they lived a lot longer than what we do now.
The people who were there when the old ones crashed, what type of houses did they live in? Do the legends say? B: No, the legends do not say. But they do say that they were in perfect harmony with the Earth. And at first they were scared of the old ones. Since the old ones were not in harmony it was painful for the first people to be close to the old ones. As the old ones came to be in better harmony they started being able to mix more, to where finally they were living together as one people.
D: I kept wondering about that. You told me that the old ones were very light, very fair and had hair the color of wheat, and that your people now were not that color. I could not understand that. It would be like the animals when they breed, they have the different colors. This could be the explanation. The original people were darkhaired like you are. Is that right? B: These people that were here, yes. And they were also shorter than we are.
The old ones brought the plant that we weave cloth from. The legends say the old ones would design plants.
Perhaps the old ones had the power to alter the song of life.
D: That would be an interesting idea. What about any other plants that they might have brought with them?
B: Some of our grains, it is said, they brought with them. Some of the grains the first ones had. And so, it is hard to say which is which. D: They might have mixed together. B: True. They may have. D: You said there was some kind of vegetables that were grown. I mean, roots and things like that. B: Yes. Most of those were brought by the old ones.
One of the legends say that the old ones used to communicate with other old ones. There was a magic rock. They would speak to this rock and the rock would speak back.
B: It has been said that sometimes in the past the moon walked a different path than she does now. That is one of the legends. In the old ones’ time, it is said that … (trying to remember) the path that the moon walked and the path that the sun walked were more harmonious than they are now, and the path of the stars too. For at one time a certain number of the moon’s cycles always coincided with a certain number of the sun’s cycles. I was trying to remember the numbers that were told me. I am not good with numbers. Give me a moment. (Pause) Okay. It is said that there were 12 moon cycles for one year, exactly, all the time, every year. And the art of keeping track of the paths of the stars and sun and moon was not as intricate as it is now. For every year when certain stars would arise, it would always be a certain portion of a particular number of moon cycles, from the solstice or the equinox, depending on how far you wanted to count it. And then one time something happened. There were bright lights in the sky and the Earth shook. It was a very terrible time. The crops did not grow that year. Many people were killed and it was during that time when most of our knowledge was lost. The ones that survived knew they had to keep alive the knowledge that they still had, even though it was not nearly what our people once had. And it took many generations for the paths of the moon and stars and sun to settle down again. After two or three generations, the wise men observed the paths and tried to figure out what had happened.
The path of the moon and the path of the sun no longer coincided. D: It was no longer exactly 12 moon cycles? B: It was more like 13 and ¼ or something like that. I do not know, I am a hunter. Before the change occurred anyone could keep track of it. It was easy. The wise man and the elders knew the reasons behind it. Then when the change occurred so many were killed that very few knew the reasons behind it. They ended up dying, to where the wise man was left with very little knowledge to work with. And he tried to figure out what happened to the paths of the sun and moon. D: Something definitely must have happened at that time. You said there were bright lights in the sky and the Earth shook. Do the legends say what else happened? B: It is said that at one point the paths of the stars and the sun reversed temporarily, to where the sun was rising where it should set, and setting where it should rise. The legends do not say how long the sun was rising where it should set. But after the first time when the Earth shook and there were lights in the sky, the wise man thought the sun was rising where it should set and setting where it should rise. No one could keep track of time then, for all the movements of the stars and the path of the moon were backwards. How can you keep track of what time is passing? And then it does not say how longbut after a period of time something else happened. The Earth shook some more and the sun once more began rising where it should and setting where it should, even today. But now the paths of the moon and the stars are no longer with the path of the sun. And it was very complex to keep track of it now.
D. Are there any legends of large animals that may have disappeared? B: There is one. I am not sure what it is called. I can describe it. It was said to be as big as a house. It had horns like oxen and large ears. And its nose could not be told apart from a tail. Long fur, lots of fur. I do not know what it could be. It sounded like something ferocious to hunt. I would not want to; it would be difficult. It would supply a lot of meat though. It was said to be very good to eat.
B: In the legends they were said to be very dangerous. D: When did these disappear? B: When the Earth changed its path.
I found that there were four major advances of ice during the Ice Age, between which there were periods when it melted back. The last ice sheet disappeared from North America between 10,000 and 15,000 years ago. With the retreat of the ice, many forms of animals became extinct, to be replaced with modern animals. Among those to disappear was the mammoth. In 1989 the nearly complete skeleton of a mammoth was found at 9,000 feet (2743 meters) in central Utah, setting a highaltitude record for the extinct mammals. The mammoth was believed to have become mired in a bog at the edge of a glacier 10,000 to 15,000 Years ago.
D: I thought maybe you might make the points out of pieces of metal. B: Sometimes. But the metal is too valuable and it is often that arrows are lost. So if you are needing a sharp edge for something that will end up being lost, you use something that is easy to be gotten, like a rock, and save the metal for knives.
He says that sometimes stars have clouds on them like the Earth has clouds, and the old ones said that is what caused it to lightning and storm. The sun would form clouds on it which would cause Mother Earth to form clouds in sympathy and it would storm. I have never seen clouds on the sun. It would be too hot to have clouds there.
That is what it looks like when you look at the sky. But the wise man says that it is not that way. He says that the Earth Mother really moves around the sun.
The wise man says that the old ones could see other wandering stars with their magic eyes that we cannot see.
There is the seven jewels. That is where the old ones are said to come from. (Smirking. A disbelieving tone of voice.) Well, anyhow, it is said that the old ones felt that this particular group of stars were important for some reason. There are seven of them clustered together like in a small cup. Some refer to them as the seven jewels, but I think it looks more like a cup. There are three vessels in the sky. There is a large cup with a long handle, and a smaller one with a long handle. And there is this small cup. This is the one that the old ones felt was important. D: Seven little stars crowded together… (He was obviously referring to the Pleiades.) What direction is that if you were looking up at the sky? B: It depends on when you look. It travels in a great circle.
On a clear night when you look up at the sky you see how it is dark and scattered with stars. One legend says the stars really exist; they are really things. They are not just points of light to look at. And there is this great unimaginable void out there. It is said that the Old Ones could traverse this void the way you and I would walk through the woods. It would be most miraculous. They could travel wondrous distances through this void. They would go from one star habitation to another star habitation. They were not limited to just the village they came from. They could live anywhere they wanted to. And it is said that when they approached our sun, the place where we live appeared like a precious jewel suspended in the void. And that it was round and pretty, which is one of those things you just have to accept as part of the story. I mean, I walk through the woods, and the ground looks flat to me. But they said when you go far enough away from the Earth, it appears to be round. That is the story I was saying I thought was an inbetweentype story. Back before there was anything that existed, everything was white. You know how just before the sun comes up and there is light all over but no shadows. That is the way everything was at the very beginning. Nothing existed yet. All there was was light. And the light was divided up into pieces, and these pieces of light became the sun and the moon and the stars. After the light was gathered up into pieces of light, it left dark between the places that were light. And this was where the Earth was formed, in the dark inbetween out of dark materials, metal and dirt and such as this. And through the interaction between the dark places and the light places an energy was caused. And this is how life was created.
We say that in the beginning all there was was just this light. No shadows or anythingjust this light. But there were also spirits. And the spirits got together and said, “This light is very pretty, but nothing ever happens. We are bored. We want some changes. Let us see what will happen if we make some changes.” And they said, “We will make this in the form of a game so that we can learn more about each other and develop and have fun.” And as part of the game they said, “We have to set up a place to play our game.” So they divided the light up into light and dark. And they made the Earth because they said, “We have to have a place to go to play our game.” So they made the Earth to go with the sun. And they said, “We need a light for night time, too.” So they made the moon. And then they said, “Everything is set up for the game. Now we need to set up the rules for the game. And the rules for the game are that each player can play as many rounds as they like. Or if they want to drop out for two or three rounds, that is all right, too.” So each round in the game is when you are alive here on Earth. Your spirit is here playing the game. Then when you die that is the end of that particular round. If you decide you want to play another round, then you are born again. Or if you want to drop out for a round or two, then you do. And time passes, and later on if you decide you want to play another round of the game you are born again. But when we tell it to the children we add more special effects and make it really interesting for them. We talk about how the animals helped to decide how the Earth should be made.
We say that in the beginning all there was was just this light. No shadows or anything just this light. But there were also spirits. And the spirits got together and said, “This light is very pretty, but nothing ever happens. We are bored. We want some changes. Let us see what will happen if we make some changes.” And they said, “We will make this in the form of a game so that we can learn more about each other and develop and have fun.” And as part of the game they said, “We have to set up a place to play our game.” So they divided the light up into light and dark. And they made the Earth because they said, “We have to have a place to go to play our game.” So they made the Earth to go with the sun. And they said, “We need a light for night time, too.” So they made the moon. And then they said, “Everything is set up for the game. Now we need to set up the rules for the game. And the rules for the game are that each player can play as many rounds as they like. Or if they want to drop out for two or three rounds, that is all right, too.” So each round in the game is when you are alive here on Earth. Your spirit is here playing the game. Then when you die that is the end of that particular round. If you decide you want to play another round, then you are born again. Or if you want to drop out for a round or two, then you do. And time passes, and later on if you decide you want to play another round of the game you are born again. But when we tell it to the children we add more special effects and make it really interesting for them. We talk about how the animals helped to decide how the Earth should be made.
B: In that version, when the spirits were deciding they were wanting to play the game, they realized that even though they had this place to go, the first spirits who came here to play the first round of the game found there was nothing but bare dirt. So they said, “This is not a very good game. We are not through setting this up yet. We need some changes.” They called the other spirits down and said, “We are not through yet. What shall we do?” And they said, “First, this is nothing but dirt here. We need some water, too.” And it was all agreed. “You are right, we need water.” And so the rivers and the lakes were formed. And another spirit said, “How are we going to keep this water here? Every time the sun comes up these lakes start shrinking.” And so another spirit said, “Why don’t we do something really wild. Let’s have extra water fall down from the sky.” Well, all right, why not?
Then we can give them the more complicated version of the story. Then we can explain how the energy divided everything to where it would be balanced. The spirits live out there in the void where it is very light and mostly energy. But as it gets closer to the Earth and the more physical aspect of the universe, the light condenses down into solid physical form.
The elders, the wise ones, the few who study such things, say that the more you study it the more complicated it gets. That there is never any end to it. They like studying it. But whenever they try to explain it to people who do not study it, it is a lot more complicated. The reason why some of the things do not seem to make sense to them is because they do not know everything behind it.
When your song is in harmony with the Earth’s song someone else does not need to tell you how to sing.
Everything, everybody, anything that exists has its spirit. A plant, you, an animal, a rock, the wind, the rain, the thunder, the lightning, the clouds, the sun, the stars, everything. Each star has a spirit.
D: Then do you sing to any certain spirits more than the others? B: Not any more than others. Sometimes you know the situation fairly and you know which spirit would be good to take care of the situation. Or why two or three or four spirits could take care of the situation. You address yourself to them. But other times, if it is just a general situation and you are not sure who could best handle it, you address all the spirits in general. And say, “Please hear me. Whoever can take care of this. This is what I need.”
D: Then they have just split off into different kinds. I’d like to know a little bit more about the first people who were there. Tuin said there was a small group of people there whenever the ship crashed. B: Yes, the natives. They were aboriginetype people, distant ancestors to the American Indians. On the chain of evolution they seemed to be Stone Age people, in development between Neanderthal and CroMagnon humans. Although I do know Neanderthal and CroMagnon were not related directly in the line of evolution, so far as knowledge and cultural development. They wore skins and usually lived in caves or built shelters usually out of sticks and mud.
B: Some. The colors ranged through ash blond to light blond to platinum blond and pale blue. And various variations of that range; sometimes someone might be platinum blond but with pale blue highlights. When they would be in direct light you would see pale blue glints in this platinum blond hair. And other people would be directly pale blue so that, regardless of the light they were in, it was obvious it was pale blue. D: Those colors would have been genetically drowned out right away, I suppose. B: Yes indeed. The blue aspect of it took longer to be bred out because the natives had blue in their hair from it being so black. You’ve seen the color. It’s black when you look at it, but when the sun shines on it just right you see blue highlights because it’s so dark. Some of the first and second generations had interesting hair colors. Usually when an ash blond would breed with a native, the hair would be red; not your spectrum red but the normal orangered color or more of an auburna very pleasant color. And sometimes whenever someone with pale blue hair mated with a native the children tended to have bright blue hair. They found this very amusing.
At this point in your time, anyone who has any American Indian in them would have a little bit of the Old Ones’ blood because it was eventually spread throughout the American Indian peoples.
B: There is Lupus Erythematosus. That is a condition where the skin is sensitive to the sun. I believe the word you use is “allergic.” The person gets in the sun, their skin breaks out in a rash and the body starts aching and malfunctioning. It causes the body’s natural immune system to attack the body itself. Particularly in the joints. That is another trait from the Old Ones. Lupus is a chronic inflammatory disease that can affect various parts of the body, especially the skin, joints, blood and kidneys. The body’s immune system normally makes proteins called antibodies to protect the body against viruses, bacteria and other foreign materials. These foreign materials are called antigens. In an autoimmune disorder such as Lupus, the immune system loses its ability to tell the difference between foreign substances (antigens) and its own cells and tissues. The immune system then makes antibodies directed against “self.” In other words, the body begins to attack itself, hence the name Lupus which means wolf. Lupus is a rather mysterious disease because it is difficult to diagnose, and its cause is unknown. It is believed that environmental and genetic factors are involved. They have found that there is a genetic or hereditary predisposition to the disease, and environmental factors play a critical role in triggering flareups. One of these factors is an unusual sensitivity to sunlight. The disease occurs more frequently in women than men, thus it is believed that hormones may play a part. And Native Americans develop the disease more frequently than Caucasians. Certain Native American tribes (Sioux, Crow, Arapahoe) have a high predisposition toward the disease. This is a simplified description of a very complex disease, but it is amazing how the symptoms show that it could possibly be connected to a defective gene passed down through thousands of years from the Old Ones.
