Athenians

Main article Ancient Athens

The grace and cheerfulness of Athenian life have disappeared; and a spirit of moroseness and religious intolerance has taken their place.

The questions which have been thus indirectly suggested may be considered by us under five or six heads: I, the characters; II, the plan; III, the style; IV, the imitations of other writings of Plato; V; the more general relation of the Laws to the Republic and the other dialogues; and VI, to the existing Athenian and Spartan states.

The Athenian, as might be expected, is the protagonist or chief speaker, while the second place is assigned to the Cretan, who, as one of the leaders of a new colony, has a special interest in the conversation.

The Athenian talks to the two others, although they are his equals in age, in the style of a master discoursing to his scholars; he frequently praises himself; he entertains a very poor opinion of the understanding of his companions.

The typical Athenian apologizes for the tendency of his countrymen 'to spin a long discussion out of slender materials,' and in a similar spirit the Lacedaemonian Megillus apologizes for the Spartan brevity (compare Thucydid.), acknowledging at the same time that there may be occasions when long discourses are necessary.

The family of Megillus is the proxenus of Athens at Sparta; and he pays a beautiful compliment to the Athenian, significant of the character of the work, which, though borrowing many elements from Sparta, is also pervaded by an Athenian spirit.

A good Athenian, he says, is more than ordinarily good, because he is inspired by nature and not manufactured by law.

The Athenian on his side has a pleasure in speaking to the Lacedaemonian of the struggle in which their ancestors were jointly engaged against the Persians.

The Cretan and Lacedaemonian hardly contribute at all to the argument of which the Athenian is the expounder; they only supply information when asked about the institutions of their respective countries.

At first, they are dissatisfied with the free criticisms which the Athenian passes upon the laws of Minos and Lycurgus, but they acquiesce in his greater experience and knowledge of the world.

In Book vii., the Lacedaemonian expresses a momentary irritation at the accusation which the Athenian brings against the Spartan institutions, of encouraging licentiousness in their women, but he is reminded by the Cretan that the permission to criticize them freely has been given, and cannot be retracted.

His only criterion of truth is the authority of the Spartan lawgiver; he is 'interested,' in the novel speculations of the Athenian, but inclines to prefer the ordinances of Lycurgus.

Nothing in life seems to be of much importance to them; they are spectators rather than actors, and men in general appear to the Athenian speaker to be the playthings of the Gods and of circumstances.

To this the Athenian objects that the true lawgiver should frame his laws with a view to all the virtues and not to one only.

At the beginning of the fourth book, after enquiring into the circumstances and situation of the colony, the Athenian proceeds to make further reflections.

We can hardly suppose that an educated Athenian would have placed the visit of Epimenides to Athens ten years before the Persian war, or have imagined that a war with Messene prevented the Lacedaemonians from coming to the rescue of Hellas.

Some of the most amusing descriptions, as, for example, of children roaring for the first three years of life; or of the Athenians walking into the country with fighting-cocks under their arms; or of the slave doctor who knocks about his patients finely; and the gentleman doctor who courteously persuades them; or of the way of keeping order in the theatre, 'by a hint from a stick,' are narrated with a commonplace gravity; but where we find this sort of dry humour we shall not be far wrong in thinking that the writer intended to make us laugh.

In several passages the Athenian praises himself in the most unblushing manner, very unlike the irony of the earlier dialogues, as when he declares that 'the laws are a divine work given by some inspiration of the Gods,' and that 'youth should commit them to memory instead of the compositions of the poets.' The prosopopoeia which is adopted by Plato in the Protagoras and other dialogues is repeated until we grow weary of it.

The words of the Athenian are attributed to the Lacedaemonian and Cretan, who are supposed to have made them their own, after the manner of the earlier dialogues.

The long speeches or sermons of the Athenian, often extending over several pages, have never the grace and harmony which are exhibited in the earlier dialogues.

For example, the address to the poets: 'Best of strangers, we also are poets of the best and noblest tragedy; for our whole state is an imitation of the best and noblest life, which we affirm to be indeed the very truth of tragedy.' Or again, the sight of young men and maidens in friendly intercourse with one another, suggesting the dangers to which youth is liable from the violence of passion; or the eloquent denunciation of unnatural lusts in the same passage; or the charming thought that the best legislator 'orders war for the sake of peace and not peace for the sake of war;' or the pleasant allusion, 'O Athenian—inhabitant of Attica, I will not say, for you seem to me worthy to be named after the Goddess Athene because you go back to first principles;' or the pithy saying, 'Many a victory has been and will be suicidal to the victors, but education is never suicidal;' or the fine expression that 'the walls of a city should be allowed to sleep in the earth, and that we should not attempt to disinter them;' or the remark that 'God is the measure of all things in a sense far higher than any man can be;' or that 'a man should be from the first a partaker of the truth, that he may live a true man as long as possible;' or the principle repeatedly laid down, that 'the sins of the fathers are not to be visited on the children;' or the description of the funeral rites of those priestly sages who depart in innocence; or the noble sentiment, that we should do more justice to slaves than to equals; or the curious observation, founded, perhaps, on his own experience, that there are a few 'divine men in every state however corrupt, whose conversation is of inestimable value;' or the acute remark, that public opinion is to be respected, because the judgments of mankind about virtue are better than their practice; or the deep religious and also modern feeling which pervades the tenth book (whatever may be thought of the arguments); the sense of the duty of living as a part of a whole, and in dependence on the will of God, who takes care of the least things as well as the greatest; and the picture of parents praying for their children—not as we may say, slightly altering the words of Plato, as if there were no truth or reality in the Gentile religions, but as if there were the greatest—are very striking to us.

Though he is no longer fired with dialectical enthusiasm, he would compel the guardians to 'look at one idea gathered from many things,' and to 'perceive the principle which is the same in all the four virtues.' He still recognizes the enormous influence of music, in which every youth is to be trained for three years; and he seems to attribute the existing degeneracy of the Athenian state and the laxity of morals partly to musical innovation, manifested in the unnatural divorce of the instrument and the voice, of the rhythm from the words, and partly to the influence of the mob who ruled at the theatres.

But in the Laws an Athenian element is also introduced.

Many enactments are taken from the Athenian; the four classes are borrowed from the constitution of Cleisthenes, which Plato regards as the best form of Athenian government, and the guardians of the law bear a certain resemblance to the archons.

The Nocturnal Council, which is the highest body in the state, has several of the functions of the ancient Athenian Areopagus, after which it appears to be modelled.

The extravagant dislike which Plato shows both to a naval power and to extreme democracy is the reverse of Athenian.

'This was what Solon meant or said'—was the form in which the Athenian expressed his own conception of right and justice, or argued a disputed point of law.

The poet Tyrtaeus (you know his poems in Crete, and my Lacedaemonian friend is only too familiar with them)—he was an Athenian by birth, and a Spartan citizen:—'Well,' he says, 'I sing not, I care not about any man, however rich or happy, unless he is brave in war.' Now I should like, in the name of us all, to ask the poet a question.

For there is no drunken revelry in Sparta, and any one found in a state of intoxication is severely punished; he is not excused as an Athenian would be at Athens on account of a festival.

I myself have seen the Athenians drunk at the Dionysia—and at our colony, Tarentum, on a similar occasion, I have beheld the whole city in a state of intoxication.' I admit that these festivals should be properly regulated.

The stronger overcomes the weaker, as the Athenians have overcome the Ceans, or the Syracusans the Locrians, who are, perhaps, the best governed state in that part of the world.

We Athenians are always thought to be fond of talking, whereas the Lacedaemonian is celebrated for brevity, and the Cretan is considered to be sagacious and reserved.

'Are you aware, Athenian, that our family is your proxenus at Sparta, and that from my boyhood I have regarded Athens as a second country, and having often fought your battles in my youth, I have become attached to you, and love the sound of the Attic dialect?

The saying is true, that the best Athenians are more than ordinarily good, because they are good by nature; therefore, be assured that I shall be glad to hear you talk as much as you please.' 'I, too,' adds Cleinias, 'have a tie which binds me to you.

He told the Athenians that the Persian host would not come for ten years, and would go away again, having suffered more harm than they had inflicted.

For of the three cities one only fought on behalf of Hellas; and of the two others, Argos refused her aid; and Messenia was actually at war with Sparta: and if the Lacedaemonians and Athenians had not united, the Hellenes would have been absorbed in the Persian empire, and dispersed among the barbarians.

There are two mother forms of states—one monarchy, and the other democracy: the Persians have the first in the highest form, and the Athenians the second; and no government can be well administered which does not include both.

There was a time when both the Persians and Athenians had more the character of a constitutional state than they now have.

But enough of the Persians: a different lesson is taught by the Athenians, whose example shows that a limited freedom is far better than an unlimited.

For Darius had sent Datis and Artaphernes, commanding them under pain of death to subjugate the Eretrians and Athenians.

A report, whether true or not, came to Athens that all the Eretrians had been 'netted'; and the Athenians in terror sent all over Hellas for assistance.

In process of time Xerxes came to the throne, and the Athenians heard of nothing but the bridge over the Hellespont, and the canal of Athos, and the innumerable host and fleet.

'Your words, Athenian, are worthy of your country.' And you Megillus, who have inherited the virtues of your ancestors, are worthy to hear them.

In ancient times the Athenian people were not the masters, but the servants of the laws.

Minos, who was a great sea-king, imposed upon the Athenians a cruel tribute, for in those days they were not a maritime power; they had no timber for ship-building, and therefore they could not 'imitate their enemies'; and better far, as I maintain, would it have been for them to have lost many times over the lives which they devoted to the tribute than to have turned soldiers into sailors.

They have their natural divisions, too, answering to the kinds of virtue; very unlike the discordant enactments of an Athenian assembly or of an English Parliament.

The action of courts of law in making law seems to have escaped him, probably because the Athenian law-courts were popular assemblies; and, except in a mythical form, he can hardly be said to have had before his eyes the ideal of a judge.

The outburst of martial spirit in the Lacedaemonian, 'O best of men'; the protest which the Cretan makes against the supposed insult to his lawgiver; the cordial acknowledgment on the part of both of them that laws should not be discussed publicly by those who live under their rule; the difficulty which they alike experience in following the speculations of the Athenian, are highly characteristic.

The Athenians are fond of cock-fighting, and the people who keep cocks carry them about in their hands or under their arms, and take long walks, to improve, not their own health, but the health of the birds.

In our dances imitations of war should be practised, as in the dances of the Curetes in Crete and of the Dioscuri at Sparta, or as in the dances in complete armour which were taught us Athenians by the goddess Athene.

He had seen the Athenian empire, almost within the limits of his own life, wax and wane, but he never seems to have asked himself what would happen if, a century from the time at which he was writing, the Greek character should have as much changed as in the century which had preceded.

The 'chants of Isis' (Laws), we might think, would have been barbarous in an Athenian ear.

The whole number of 360, as in the Athenian constitution, is distributed among the months of the year according to the number of the tribes.

They are to exercise a general superintendence, and, like the Athenian counsellors, are to preside in monthly divisions over all assemblies.

Though the council is framed on the model of the Athenian Boule, the law courts of Plato do not equally conform to the pattern of the Athenian dicasteries.

He has evidently a sympathy with the soldier, as well as with the poet, and he is no mean master of the art, or at least of the theory, of war (compare Laws; Republic), though inclining rather to the Spartan than to the Athenian practice of it (Laws).

Plato has an evident dislike of the Athenian dicasteries; he prefers a few judges who take a leading part in the conduct of trials to a great number who only listen in silence.

Modern jurists would disapprove of the redress of injustice being purchased only at an increasing risk; though indirectly the burden of legal expenses, which seems to have been little felt among the Athenians, has a similar effect.

The love of litigation, which is a remnant of barbarism quite as much as a corruption of civilization, and was innate in the Athenian people, is diminished in the new state by the imposition of severe penalties.

In my sources the early Athenians are the ones who stood against Atlantis and won, before both were lost in the same catastrophe.

On the same page the priest goes on to say that Athens, left to stand alone, defeated the invaders, and that afterwards, in a single day and night of earthquakes and floods, the Athenian warriors sank into the earth and Atlantis disappeared into the sea.

More than this, we know from Plato's history that the Athenians long preserved in their books the memory of a victory won over the Atlanteans in the early ages, and celebrated it by national festivals, with processions and religious ceremonies.

Lewis Spence, on The History of Atlantis (1926), cites a scholiast who says the Athenian victory over the Atlanteans was shown on the robe dedicated at the Lesser Panathenaea, which he dates to at least 125 years before Plato.

Michael LaFlem makes the same point on Channeled Atlantis: Steiner, Tesla & Cayce: the Athenians commemorated Athena's victory over the Atlantides at the Lesser Panathenaia, so the story is older than Plato.

Robert Sepehr, on Atlantis, Fallen Angels, and Archaic DNA, recounts Plato's story: about 8,000 years before the Trojan War the Atlanteans tried to conquer the Mediterranean world and were defeated by the Athenians and their allies.

He says the North peoples came south through Greece and destroyed the Mycenaean palaces, while the Athenians held out on the Acropolis.

For every page I tagged with Athenians, see the Athenians tag archive.

Plato says Solon, the Athenian lawgiver, heard the story from priests in Sais, a city in the Nile delta, around 560 BC.

Before that, he says, the North peoples came south through Greece and destroyed the Mycenaean palaces, while the Athenians held out on the Acropolis.

Minos is central to the myths of the Labyrinth, the Minotaur (born to his wife Pasiphaë), and the Athenian tribute of youths.

In his letter to the Athenians, the Apostle Paul offered one of the most expansive definitions of the divine ever recorded:

Jesus visits Greece and is welcomed by the Athenians.

1. The Greek philosophy was full of pungent truth, and Jesus longed to study with the masters in the schools of Greece.2. And so he left his home in Nazareth and crossed the Carmel hills, and at the port took ship, and soon was in the Grecian capital.3. Now, the Athenians had heard of him as teacher and philosopher, and they were glad to have him come to them that they might hear his words of truth.4. Among the masters of the Greeks was one, Apollo, who was called, Defender of the Oracle, and recognised in many lands as Grecian sage.5. Apollo opened up for Jesus all the doors of Grecian lore, and in the Areopagus he heard the wisest masters speak.6. But Jesus brought to them a wisdom greater far than theirs; and so he taught.7. Once in the Amphitheatre he stood, and when Apollo bade him speak he said,8. Athenian masters, hear!

The Athenians pray to idols.

The Athenian lawgiver Solon allegedly learned it during a visit around 590 BCE and passed it down through his family (including the Critias who appears in the dialogue).

In the aftermath of this war, both the victorious ancient Athenians and the island of Atlantis itself were destroyed in a single day and night of catastrophic earthquakes and floods.

So much so that he and others even accused Plato of having copied the whole Republic from the Egyptians and of having used the story of Atlantis to demonstrate that the Athenians truly once lived according to that perfect constitution.However the dialogues only "pretend" that the antediluvian Athenians correspond to the inhabitants of the Republic, they are not even presented as perfect and they also perish in the same cataclysm of Atlantis, so this kind of accusation makes no sense to me.Crantor adds that the details narrated by Plato are true and confirmed by the prophets of the Egyptians who report how this story could still be found written on columns in Egypt!

Numenius, on the other hand, stated that the struggle indicated a sort of dispute between the noblest souls belonging to Athena and those linked to the world of Genesis and belonging to the God who presides over it, namely Poseidon. There actually existed a Greek tradition which saw Athena and Poseidon compete for the favor of the Athenians, who in the end chose Athena.

The priest describes a pre-flood Athenian civilization, renowned for its laws and deeds, existing 9,000 years before Solon’s time (circa 600 BCE), dating to around 11,600 years ago, aligning with the Pleistocene-to-Holocene transition and the Younger Dryas period.

The Younger Dryas (circa 12,900–11,600 years ago) culminated in Meltwater Pulse 1B, a significant oceanic discharge from melting ice sheets, coinciding with Plato’s date for Atlantis’s subsidence following its war with proto-Athenians.

ATHENIAN: Ilium was built, when they descended from the mountain, in a large and fair plain, on a sort of low hill, watered by many rivers descending from Ida.

ATHENIAN: And we must suppose this event to have taken place many ages after the deluge?

ATHENIAN: A marvellous forgetfulness of the former destruction would appear to have come over them, when they placed their town right under numerous streams flowing from the heights, trusting for their security to not very high hills, either.

Solon, the famous Athenian lawmaker and one of the Seven Sages of Greece, is said to have visited Egypt around 590 BCE.

It is said to have waged war on the lands inside the Pillars, ancient Athens among them, which sets the virtuous Athenians against the arrogant Atlanteans.

He was a contemporary of Ægeus, the king of Athens, and Theseus, the famous Athenian hero.

Minos appears prominently in the mythological accounts of Crete and Athens, often as a rival or adversary to the Athenians.

Theseus, son of Ægeus, eventually ended this gruesome practice by slaying the Minotaur, becoming a significant hero in Athenian lore and the stories surrounding Minos.

Minos is often depicted in Athenian mythology as a stern and powerful ruler, but his legacy also points to his association with maritime power and lawmaking, reflecting the advanced civilization of the Minoans, whom he is believed to represent.

Two significant civilizations, Athenians and Atlanteans, existed at a pivotal time.

The Athenians, described as maritime masters, were their primary rivals.

Origins: The story was purportedly passed down from Solon, the Athenian lawgiver, who received it from Egyptian priests.

Thus,, every year, on the third day of the festival of the Anthestéria, a day of mourning consecrated to the dead--that is, on the thirteenth of the month of Anthestérion, toward the beginning of March--it was customary, as at Bambyce, to pour water into the fissure, together with flour mixed with honey, poured also into the trench dug to the west of the tomb, in the funeral sacrifices of the Athenians."

In the lesser Panathenæ they carried another peplum (covered with symbolic devices), which showed how the Athenians, supported by Minerva, had the advantage in the war with the Atlantes.' A scholia quoted from Proclus by Humboldt and Boeckh says: 'The historians who speak of the islands of the exterior sea

More than this, we know from Plato's history that the Athenians long preserved in their books the memory of a victory won over the Atlanteans in the early ages, and celebrated it by national festivals, with processions and religious ceremonies.

Plato claimed to have learned of this myth from Solon, a respected Athenian statesman, who had been told about the Atlantean empire by ancient Egyptian priests.

About 8,000 years before the Trojan War, the Atlanteans attempted to conquer the Mediterranean world but were defeated by the Athenians and their allies.

Solon: Athenian statesman (6th century B.C.), credited with bringing the Atlantis tale from Egypt to Greece.

Now as regards the numerous barbaric tribes and all the Hellenic nations that then existed, the sequel of our story, when it is, as it were, unrolled, will disclose what happened in each locality; but the facts about the Athenians of that age and the enemies [the Atlantes (Atlanteans)] with whom they fought we must necessarily describe first, at the outset,--the military power, that is to say, of each and their forms of government.

LaFlem explained that the story of Atlantis predates Plato by at least 180 years, as the Athenians had a celebration called the "Lesser Panathenaia" where they commemorated Athena’s victory over the Atlantides.

Critias 108d - 109a: This section introduces Atlantis as part of a broader narrative related to the ancient Athenian state.

Critias mentions that he will recount a story told by his grandfather, who heard it from Solon, the famous Athenian statesman.

The revenues from the mines at Laurium had brought great wealth into the Athenians' treasury, and when each man was to receive ten drachmae for his share, Themistocles persuaded the Athenians to make no such division but to use the money to build two hundred ships for the war, that is, for the war with Aegina.

The silver of Laurium paid for the Athenian fleet.

Poseidon Erechtheus: merged with the Athenian hero-king Erechtheus.

ATHENIAN: Do you believe that there is any truth in ancient traditions?

ATHENIAN: The traditions about the many destructions of mankind which have been occasioned by deluges and pestilences, and in many other ways, and of the survival of a remnant?